**********The City of Angels is Everywhere*********

Thursday, May 17, 2007

Would a priest or bishop lie under oath? Mental Reservation debated in court Wednesday re church witnesses refusing to answer in depositions


Attorneys debated “mental reservation” in court Wednesday in hearings on motions to compel, and Catch 22’s were flying all over the place. Ms. Young appearing for the archbishop repeated several times that if a priest says he doesn't remember, he doesn't remember (much like a Bushie testifying before the US Senate). DeMarco for the plaintiffs pointed out, “Defendants have brought Code of Canon Law into court when it suits their purpose and they argue Canon Law, but we're not allowed to inquire at all into church doctrine or law.”

Donald Woods for the church said, “These witnesses already said they saw nothing, heard nothing, nobody ever reported anything to them.” Tim Hale for the plaintiffs replied that one priest answered yes without hesitation when asked if mental reservation “is a doctrine that protects the church from scandal.”

Then Ms. Young tried to say mental reservation is no more than “lying and saying that's a pretty dress when really it’s not,” and I am so glad I’ve recently gotten on medication and joined an Anger Management group. In fact throughout this hearing I wanted to jump up and start yelling, “Look at my case, my case, my case, my case.” Because Mental Reservation was the church’s MO way back in 1955 when Cardinal Stritch in Chicago stood over me and told me I had to lie in order to protect a greater good.

Plus, church attorneys Young and Woods both seem to believe that a priest would never tell a lie, especially under oath. Even Judge Fromholz pointed out that plaintiffs seem to have evidence that these priests are lying.

FROMHOLZ: “Plaintiffs argue that there is contrary testimony that he was given notice.”

When Anthony DeMarco spoke the room fell silent, because his was practically the only rational voice.

DEMARCO: Under the statute of limitations it’s if they knew, had reason to know, or were on notice, and that's the relevance.

WOODS: Did he know. Not whether he was suspicious or would have been suspicious.

DEMARCO: Knew, had reason to know, or was on notice. Actual knowledge is not the issue.

The rest of the attorneys went silent.

Fromholz granted the plaintiffs motions and depositions will now go forward on these six monsignors.



When the motion to make Cardinal Mahony respond came up, the attorneys went into the jury room. A clerk explained to me that the judge had ordered them to “meet and confer” on that motion. So anything that was said about Cardinal Mahony was said behind closed doors. It will take more document diving next week to find out what happened there.

Still church attorneys didn't stop trying to twist the truth and tie logic into knots, like Ms. Young for the archbishop saying, “If I ask a witness if he’s perjuring himself how many are going to say yes?” I’m going “Real smart, church attorney lady, that's the plaintiffs’ point exactly.”

Church hierarchy witnesses are perjuring themselves because they think they're answering to a higher authority.

Church attorney Donald Woods even said, “The doctrine is that there is some higher value, not just the church.”

At one point Woods had his arms up like an evangelical stupefied in prayer as he contradicted himself right there in public for everyone to see:

(From City of Angels Winging It Transcription Service)

FROMHOLZ: Why can’t they answer what their understanding is? Some of them may think it’s a
doctrine that permits them to state other than the truth in order to protect the church.

WOODS: That's not what the doctrine is.

FROMHOLZ: What the witness believes may be significant.

WOODS: But it’s clearly not implying that. And we submitted the catechism. Doctrine is that there is some higher value, not just the church. This is just a plaintiffs’ prejudicial argument that sidetracks us into giant red herrings, it’s just -- it’s just prejudicial.

FROMHOLZ: Almost all evidence is prejudicial.

WOODS: I don't know what evidence it would lead to. It’s speculative. How does it lead to admissible evidence?

FROMHOLZ: Plaintiffs argue that there is contrary testimony that he has given notice.



City of Angels Lady recently realized it’s not safe for me to cover these hearings without being in therapy at the same time. I freaked last week, lost it and ended up 5150 in a mental ward. Because as I write this blog about Los Angeles cases details of my own case are popping into my head in what I’ve learned now to call “flashbacks” as opposed to memories. Every now and then a detail in these cases makes my own case so vivid in my head. And I’m SOOOOOOO Angry.

But I never stop praying, in fact at this point in my life I try to stay in prayer 24 hours a day, it’s the only way I can stay alive. In the mental health unit I adapted to the medicine and did everything the way they said to do it, and they lifted the hold on me Monday. I was able to get home in time to get to the hearings Tuesday. It was a God thing all the way. Now I’m leveled a little on meds and have joined a PTSD group and an Anger Management group with occasional time with a shrink to help me get through this.


More Church Lies

When Mahony took issue with the LA Times for its March 26, 2007, article about mental reservation, he announced on the archdiocese website: “The Times allows the lawyers suing the church to take a centuries-old theological discussion (it isn't doctrine) over what constitutes the telling of a lie, and fashion it into the ‘doctrine of mental reservation.’ The term isn't even found in the Catechism.”

But Donald Woods stood before Judge Fromholz Tuesday and said, “We submitted the catechism,” as his way of explaining away mental reservation. After the hearing Mr. Woods and I spoke and he assured me that all you have to do is google a catechism then type in mental reservation to read about it.

Well I did go to several online catechisms and typed in mental reservation and they all said, “no documents found, no documents match your query.” Plus I believe the catechism is for the parishioners, not the priests, isn’t it?

And as Ms. Young for the archbishop stated, these lies about pedophile priests are no more than lying about whether or not that's a pretty dress.

Gotta get to Anger Management class, more later.



Church Attorney Donald Woods re whether hierarchy witnesses are silently invoking mental reservation:

"This is more gamesmanship and speculation to create issues that don’t exist.”

Onward, more to come . . .


Peggy said...

Thank you for keeping us "up to date" around the country as to what is happening in LA. Your blog is invaluable. You have unsermountable courage to confront Woods! FANTASTIC! Therapy, meds, support groups all good things and all a must when dealing with the "lowest of the low", the heirarchy in the "one true faith" the Roman Catholic Church. God help us.
Much love and prayers,
Peggy Warren

Peggy said...

Had a total brain fart and had Judi on my mind.

Sister M. Immaculata Dunn said...

What about "Sacramentorum sanctitatis tutela," a document sent to all the bishops of the world by John Paul II on April 30, 2001?


Russ Bianchi said...

Thank You City Of Angles Blog for your continued due dliligence on the daily criminal cover up proceedings, by Cardinal Roger M. Mahony, to attempt (however feebly and cowardly) to remain personally UNACCOUNTABLE, for over three decades of ENABLING, AIDING, ABETTING & ASSISTING hundreds of rapists, sodomizers, sexual assaulters and oral copulators of THOUSANDS of California Children (Fresno, Stockton & LA), as well as the Teflon/Hell-i-port/Chopper Cardinal's assisting in these MONSTERS fleeing prosecution across international borders in Mexico, Asia and elsewhere.

Mahony is seeing that these incurable perpetrators' salaries/pensions are paid, via their host dioceses, beyond extradition, under assumed names, to silence them (as they rape and sodomize again in the foreign countries) to stop them from testifying against Mahony, as Mahony did with Fr. O'Grady (fled to Ireland) in DELIVER US FROM EVIL, the Academy Award nominated docutmentary.

To date, Mahony and the California Bishops, have cost each and every laity member HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in settlements, more in unreported hush money or gag ordered settlements, while Mahony and the California Bishops actively lobby against statute of limitation extensions, divert funds from ministries, cut lay payrolls, sell off laity paid for assets like schools, buildings, seminaries (St. John's in Camirillo was host to GAY ORGIES that Mahony and Brom were present at, per a sworn deposition of Bishop Brom in San Diego in an earlier legal suit).

Additionally, any DAILY spin and contentions by Mahony, or the PR firm raking in hundreds of thousands of laity dollars, to protect Mahony, or the laity paid for armies of law firms trying to "quash" or hide discovery evidence (in the tens of milllions of laity dollars), in over 500 still pending law suits in LA alone, is going to cost laity at least $500 million more dollars, and perhaps a number exceeding ONE BILLION DOLLARS, which will NOT be paid for by the previously represented insurance liablity premiums/policies levied to each and every LA parish, and laity, because Mahony violated the culability clauses of those polices.

Mahony is also in direct CONTEMPT of The US Supreme Court on handing over personnel records to the courts of "credibly accused" sexual perpetrator clergy also.

Mahony is directly OBSTRUCTING civil, criminal, and canonical justice.

Mahony carries a CROOK, and is one.

Bishop Brom in San Diego is overtly hiding Church assets to claim poverty, in the 3nd wealthiest Diocese in CA, after LA & Orange, under bankrupt protection and reorganization laws.

Bishop Daniel Walsh in Santa Rosa, CA, narrowly overted jail time on a felony guilty plea deal for allowing (intentionally) a known pedophile priest, very recently, to flee to Mexico, before reporting it three days later, to law enforcement authorities; complete criminal premeditated cover up! If it where you, or I, we'd be doing hard time behind bars.

The now Prefect of the Congregation For The Doctirne of Faith, Cardinal Willian ("Darth") Leveda, is massively guilty (but untouchable with Diplomatic Immunity)in several hundred cases he administered, and covered up, in the Diocese or Portland, OR, he was deposed and testified on, in exchange from immunity for prosecution, and then was brought in as a 'fixer' to clean up the Archdiocese of San Francisco, CA.

Bishops Wiegland in Sacramento and the guy in Fresno (who's name escapes me at the moment) are guilty as sin also of repeated criminal cover up!

There remains but one solution to all this, the laity must DONATE NO MONIES to any fund, building fund, hospital, school, University, order, parish, offentory, pence, mission, appeal, charity, etc. that these CRIMINAL miters and red hats can, are, and will divert, to protect their own guilty souls and hides.

Remember, Cardinal Bernard Law in Boston was only removed after revenues fell by over 75% two years in a row.

Damn the morality, laws, ethics, decency folks, this is about the MONEY!!!

It's The Money Laity, that gets change and accountability, nothing else!

No Miter Accountability, No Laity Money!

Respectfully Submittted,

Russ Bianchi
Managing Director & CEO
ADEPT SOLUTIONS, INC - A Global Food, Beverage & Pharmaceutical Product Development Corporation
on the web under 'product formulation' at: www.ift.org

Post Script: I am not a sexual abuse victim. I have never met nor spoken with any sexual abuse victim of our Church. I am not a party to any litigation with our Church. I am not a sexual abuse victim advocate, nor belong or associate with any sexual abuse advocacy organizations. I am a communion lay presider, Mass Lector, and daily Mass penitent in the Diocese of Monterey, CA. I do have relatives that are former, or current, ordained, secular, vocationed, ordered, and Curial.

I remind each and every Roman Catholic, there are over One Billion laity globally, and but just under 3,500 miters and red hats combind, and we control 100% of the revenue. It is the laity, if united, that will FORCE REFORM with the grace on our side from the Holy Spirit!

The miters and red hats are clearly in The Devil's Corner.

Edmund Burke said it best: "The only condition for EVIL to succeed, is for good men (or women) to do NOTHING."